Joel Osteen: Megachurch Televangelist Pastor without Christ?! SCANDAL!

2,056 thoughts on “Joel Osteen: Megachurch Televangelist Pastor without Christ?! SCANDAL!”

1. I watch Joel Osteen every Sunday, and I read both of his books. I find Joel uplifting and right on with his tough love from his 2nd book. Regardless of the negative comments and thoughts from people who apparently see the glass half empty, I will continue to watch him. Isn’t there enough negative and crime in this world, and if you notice, he does relate his preaching to Bible verses. If he doesn’t specifically speak about Christ or God so he can uplift many different beliefs, all I could say is look at his followers, he’s “OBVIOUSLY” doing something right!!!!!

2. Ann Mary, Joel Osteen may be uplifting and a good speaker to hear, but he isn’t in the business of making people feel good about himself. Joel Osteen is supposed to be a purveyor of God’s Word and as such he has to say some things that people may not like at times- like that he believes that Jesus is the one way to Heaven, which he refused to do on Larry King Live.

   Also, you say “look at his followers, he’s “OBVIOUSLY” doing something right!!!” What do you mean by this? He has a ton of people following him, but that doesn’t make him right or even good. Hitler had millions of people at his back and no one has been more wrong in history. I am not saying Joel Osteen is Hitler, but just that you should be careful about whom you choose to follow and what he actually believes.

3. I have to agree with Joel (this Joel, host of the blog).

   If Joel Osteen claimed to have discovered the “Secret” to prosperity and wealth through positive thinking and sold people on his television shows, his books, and his tours based on this positive thinking strategy, then he wouldn’t be doing anything wrong. He’s created a product, he’s accurately marketing it, and its up to the individual to decide what it means or does not mean.

   As it stands today, Joel Osteen is taking the Christian religion, at least 2000 years old, adapting it (despite specific commands NOT to change its basic principles in the Bible), selling it as HIS way to salvation, wealth, good health, and “prosperity”, without acknowledging that he is subverting its core beliefs.

   Sorry to say, that not only makes him a liar, a cheat, a sinner, but it also makes him a false prophet.

   If you want to support Joel Osteen the positive thinker, fine. But get him away from the forefront of the modern church. We’ll continue to fail to reach people’s lives in a way that brings them salvation if we don’t.

4. Im waiting for the day when the headlines in every newspaper reads “Joel Osteen molested a 6 year old boy”. We then find out that Joel had all along lured little boys into thinking that it’s OK to touch his penis because it has a positive reaction and makes him feel good.

5. Jordan- I agree with you 100% on Joel Osteen’s take on the prosperity message. Joel Osteen is essentially subverting religion to his own ends (haven’t we heard of this a lot before lol).

   BlackRooster- I can see the headline for Joel Osteen’s molesting children already: “Megachurch Pastor Joel Osteen Scandal”… just like all the headlines for Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard, etc.

6. It happens a lot and too any institution that people put their trust in. Government, schools, businesses, and even science have all been abused to take advantage of people. The biggest part of the problem is that people don’t adhere to their beliefs other then in principle. Its much easier to miss those problems if you’re squinting into the sun.

   Pat Robertson, as far as I know, hasn’t had a sex scandal. Just a lot of weird accusations and theories. And until Joel Osteen has shown that the huge smile of his is anything more than a sales tactic, I’ll refrain from commenting on him and children.

7. First off, why would you say something like, “I’m waiting for the day when I hear that he molested a child?” What kind of person would even say something stupid like that? How would you feel if someone said, I’m waiting for the day when Joel Gross or BlackRooster molests a child. It’s not so funny when it’s you is it?

   Second, how do you know what his motives are? Have you personally talked to the man? Do you have any records of what his church does with the money? You said he’ll be dead in 30 years so that’s why he leases the building, did he tell you this personally? Let me ask you this; let’s say you are a pastor of a church. Your current building seats 1000 people. After a few years your congregation grows and you end up having to turn families away because there is no place inside for them to sit or even stand. Wouldn’t it make sense to get a bigger building so that everyone who wants to attend can?

   Third, who cares if he wasn’t the founder of his church. What father wouldn’t want his son to take over his ministry after he passes? That was probably his father’s dream, to have one of his children continue what he started and even though Joel had no experience he became very successful over time in continuing with what his father began.

   I’m not saying Joel Osteen is perfect, no woman or man on this Earth is. I never personally met the man so I can’t say anything negative about him. All I can say is that he influences a lot of people and seems to live a good positive life rather than say he’s an imposter and is going to molest a child, or get caught in a drug or sex scandal. It seems to me like you want something bad to happen to him. I’ve watched his free podcasts on iTunes and I’ve never heard him ask for donations like some of these other preachers do. Now I’m sure they take donations off the air before/after his sermons but all churches do that so that’s nothing new.

   Finally, when you said “Please find me a single megachurch pastor who is NOT a scam-running, meth-eating, prostitute-abusing criminal. Anyone?” How about Billy Graham? I’ve never heard anything bad about him during his almost 50 years in the Ministry but I guess you’re waiting for him to molest a child too huh?

8. you say that because joel olsteen is a public figure that you have the right to judge him, but in the bible does it say do not judge others except public figures, i dont think so. i have watched mr. olsteen on t.v plenty and i also have his books, and he dosent sit there and ask people the entire time for money. he doesnt tell people that if they dont give him money that they will go to hell, people that listen to him have their own mind of whether they want to donate money to his ministy. when you receive money from who ever do you advertise to the entire world what you will spend that money on? i dont think so! it kinda sounds like to me that you may even be jealous of what he is doing. who are we to judge? but i will pray for you!

9. Anthony- Thank you for your intelligent and well-thought out reply, it’s been the first reasoned argument raised by people in the comments. I was not serious with my waiting for Joel Osteen to molest someone comment, I was just trying to make a point that it seems more than half of these megachurch televangelists end up having horrible revelations brought out about them (Haggard and his meth-addicted transsexual prostitutes come to mind here). Anthony, you also tried to point out that Billy Graham is an upright man without scandals or issues. You neglected though to research Billy Graham before you made this statement- Billy Graham was actually recorded on the Nixon tapes making many anti-Semitic jokes and saying, “Journalism in Washington D.C. has declined greatly since the Jews became involved.” At the time (1970’s) the religious community became very upset at him for this, but time has washed away most people’s memories of Billy Graham’s hate infused tirades. Anthony, I really appreciate your thoughts, but I think you didn’t answer the primary issue I raised with Joel Osteen: Why will America’s top preacher not openly discuss basic tenets of Christianity? How can he go on Larry King Live and not tell the world what it takes to be a follower of God???

   Tammy- The Bible says, “Judge not lest thee be judge.” The Bible also says, “Homosexuality is an abomination” and “if one man gets in a fight with another one, and one man’s wife comes out and grabs the other man’s testicles her hand is to be cut off” and all sorts of other ridiculous things. The Bible is full of people being judged by other people and God approving it. Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple and I am here to throw Joel Osteen’s mindless sacreligious drivel out of the largest church in America. Joel Osteen’s behavior enrages most Christians in America because he won’t stand up for the most basic principle of the faith- that the only way to God and Heaven is through Jesus Christ.

10. Joel, let me ask you this (and this may spark a whole new debate but oh well): Do YOU believe that only Christians go to Heaven?

    That is a question that Christians themselves can’t agree on. Some will say that only Christians make it to Heaven, some will say those that only those who accept Christ into their lives will make it no matter what religion they’re from, and still others will say it takes more than just going to church every Sunday and reading the Bible to make it to Heaven, you actually have to live a positive Christ-like life. And there are still others who will give different reasons and answers.

    My point is that even Christians themselves debate on what it takes to get to Heaven. Joel is simply one of the people who believes that accepting Christ and living a positive life is what it takes to make it to Heaven, that’s his view of Christianity. Thus, he gears his sermons along those lines rather than just read from the Bible on what you should and shouldn’t do. Who’s to say he’s wrong for doing this. His Christian view is different from your Christian view, that doesn’t him wrong and you right or vice versa.

    Also, he ends all of his sermons with the exact prayer, “Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins, come into my heart, I make you my Lord and Savior.” He then says that you should get into a good Bible based Church, notice he doesn’t say that he wants you to join HIS Church.

    So if you don’t like him as a viewer then you should take his advice and join your local Bible based Church. I don’t see anything wrong with this? I actually believe he is converting more people to Christianity than anyone else in America. I’m in my 20’s myself and when I talk to other people about religion most believe that if you live a good life, help others, accept Christ, and don’t commit any crimes or adultery, then you will make it to Heaven (not in that order). Joel seems to think along those same lines.

    One final thought. Joel, I assume you are a Christian yourself. (Others please feel free to answer as well) Let’s say you have 2 Pastors. 1 Pastor knows the Bible front to back and can quote exact scriptures and is a great speaker but lives a so-so life, let’s say he has a drug problem. Another Pastor is fairly new and is still learning but he makes a few mistakes while giving his sermon, he gets things mixed up a lot. However, he lives a positive life in the community and as a family man. Now which one is the more qualified Christian? The one who is mis-quoting the Bible or the one who has a drug problem?

    And I quote from your article, “I actually think that Joel Osteen operating a secular “Christian” church is more of a scandal than Ted Haggard and his transsexual prostitutes and meth!”

11. Anthony, I think the best thing that I can do here is go to what the Bible says on pastors like Joel Osteen. My subjective moral judgements do not matter when it comes to what the Bible clearly states. I understand that my opinions of right and wrong should not sway you, but I ask you to consider what the Bible says on the matter:

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” —John 3:16 (NIV)

    “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” —Romans 3:23 (NIV)

    “For the wages of sin is death.” —Romans 6:23 (NIV)

    “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” —Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

    These are the basic verses that every Christian who has accepted Christ knows. Now for the verses that clearly state that only Christians who believe the above will go to Heaven:

    -John 3:3: “…no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
    -John 3:15: “…everyone who believes in him [Jesus] may have eternal life.”
    -John 3:18: “…whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
    -John 14:6: “Jesus answered: ‘No one comes to the Father except through me'”
    -Acts 3:23: “And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.” (ASV)
    -Acts 4:12: “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved”
    -Romans 10:9: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”
    -Hebrews 9:28: “…he [Christ] will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him”
    -1 John 5:12: “…he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.”

    Anthony, the nine quoted verses above clearly state that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, if Joel Osteen truly believed and was a pastor of a “Bible-based church”, would he preach a false message of hope to people? Joel Osteen is essentially subverting the word of God, which motivated me to write this post. I am not sure why Joel would do this, but my postulation (as above) is that he is doing it for financial gain. Joel Osteen’s father was a pastor and he has been a pastor for a long time now and he should know better than most people the MOST basic tenets of Christianity. Ignorance is an excuse for new Christians (as long as they work at it), but not for “a shepherd of the flock”.

    Do you know what the Bible says about false teachers like Joel Osteen?

    -2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.

    -Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits….

    -Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

    -2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    -2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

    -Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

    -Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

    The Bible is very, very harsh in its condemnation of people who change, twist or leave out parts of it’s doctrine. False leaders (Joel Osteen), to me, are more disgusting than someone who is a hypocrite (Ted Haggard).

    Why do I care what Joel Osteen does or doesn’t do in his church, especially seeing that I am not religious? People who are cheats, fakes, and phonies really bother me. I have written quite a few other posts on various community leaders who lead people astray for their own personal gain. My tax dollars go to support Joel Osteen (every church in America is exempt from taxes, but Joel Osteen is making millions tax-free teaching his “Prosperity Message” when he is basically just another self-help guru). I also am very wary of megachurch pastors (I used to attend one and have seen many on television)- they often seem to be some of the craziest people (Jim Jones-“Want some Kool Aid?”)

12. Its very funny and insightful that the non-Christian in this discussion is quoting the most Scripture. Sad, actually.

    What Joel(blog) says is true- Scriptures are very clear on several things. First off, that they are divinely inspired, eternal, and accurate. Secondly, any effort to subvert, modify, or pervert the message is a crime against God and one that is punishable by damnation. Thirdly, over and over again, Jesus Christ’s sacrifice is the only way by which man can be forgiven and enter heaven.

    There isn’t, or shouldn’t, be any debate in the Christian community about these points. If anyone is willing to argue against those points, I would venture to say that they cannot or will not enter heaven. I’m not judging others here, and I am certainly not capable of saying you can and you cannot to anyone. But the Bible doesn’t mince words on the inherent importance of those ideas.

    There are a lot of good people in the world, who do good things, and probably will exit with more of a positive impact than negative. But that doesn’t get you to heaven. The basis of all teaching is that you can’t earn your way into heaven. No amount of good deeds or actions gets you there.

    Joel Osteen has no right, no authority, and no platform to teach any thing other than what is in the Scripture. His misuse of particular verses to promote “prosperity” or “word-faith” doctrine is tantamount to heresy and “false prophecy”. His public denial of knowledge about how one can get to heaven is a violation of God’s command towards pastors to lead not a single of his flock astray. And even though his sin is not one of sexual impurity, drug abuse, or racism, it is the same in that he denies his existence even though it is publicly displayed before all.

    Regardless of that sin, there is forgiveness if it is sought, but we cannot believe that he seeks grace if he goes on teaching and living as he does.

    Osteen’s impact on the Christian world is good in that it introduces a large audience to God. It is fatal in its falsehoods and lies.

13. Joel, You’ve raised several objections to Joel Osteen’s ministry. First, no where in scripture does it say that a church has to display a cross. (I attend a church that doesn’t). Actually, the first symbol of Christianity was a fish. Are you implying that all churches should display a fish to be truly Christian, or that a Christian church really isn’t a Christian church if it doesn’t display a cross? That’s pretty narrow-minded, isn’t it? It’s only a symbol, just as a wedding ring is a symbol of marriage. Not all people wear one. A symbol doesn’t make a building a Christian church.

    You mentioned that Joel Osteen televangelist gets lots of tax breaks, but there are a lot of rich people that also get tax breaks of some kind, and they don’t answer to “the people”. Why are you so insistent that Joel O. do so?

    Thirdly, I’ve been listening to megachurch preacher Joel Osteen for a couple of months now, and I have never heard him ask for money. Where are you getting your information from when you said “always asking for money”?

    Fourthly, I hear Joel Osteen.com talk about God and Jesus in every sermon I’ve heard. I’m not sure what words you’re listening to. Maybe you need a hearing exam.

    I find it interesting that you have quoted Scripture to prove your points, but when a blogger (Ron) quoted “Judge not…” you disqualified his Scripture, listing your reason as freedom of speech. So I ask you, does not Joel Osteen have the same freedom of speech to preach Christianity? You see, a true Christian matures through the years, changing view points as he/she grows in understanding more about God. As a young Christian, I thought that my part was to accept God and God’s part was to give me everything I wanted: a good life, a good husband, good (and obedient) kids. It took me quite a while, and a few heartaches, to realize that that was not God’s Christianity. That was my version of Christianity. Do you suppose that Joel Osteen is maturing, the same as all of us, and that as he grows older and closer to God, his view point will change as well as his way of ministering? Mine has. My husband’s has. My friends’ have.

    Why does it bother you that Joel Osteen didn’t say on Larry King Live that one has to accept Jesus to get to heaven? (Jehovah God’s heaven, so as not to add to the confusion). He says it every Sunday at the end of his sermon. When I became a Christian, I didn’t accept Jesus. I accepted God. It was God, not Jesus, that I asked into my heart, because I didn’t know differently. But God accepted my decision anyway. Since God and Jesus are the same, one in Spirit form and one in human form, what difference does it make? Joel Osteen ministries said that to be saved one has to accept God. That is true. That is accurate. But you can also say that one has to accept Jesus Christ to be saved. That also is true and accurate. And people around the world might even have different names for Him. In the city of Athens, they had a statue to the “Unknown God”, so Paul started preaching to them about the unknown god, and in the end, Paul told them His name. Missionaries have even told of very remote tribes knowing about and accepting Jehovah God without anyone telling them about Him at all. How is this possible? Let’s look at Romans 1:19-20: “…because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” These remote groups of people had never heard the name of Jesus (so how could they ask Him into their hearts by the name of Jesus?), yet they were saved, born again, going to heaven. Because of this scripture, blogger Joel, I challenge you to accept Jesus Christ, God, Jehovah, as your personal Savior. The scripture above says all are without excuse…..Another blogger has stated that if Joel is doing something wrong that God disapproves of, God Himself will take care of it. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t remember God using someone like you to expose the wrong doings of Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggert, etc, so I don’t accept your argument that maybe God is using you to expose Joel Osteen You say that this message is 2000 years old but that Joel Osteen is selling it his way, and making money off it, and that he is also not preaching the true tenants of Christianity. Well, one of the basic tenants of Christianity is that if you break part of the law, you’re guilty of breaking the whole law, James 2:10,11: “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For he who said, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘Do not commit murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.” So, let’s extrapolate with this tennent, like you appear to be fond of doing, blogger Joel. Since you’ve been wrong about Joel Osteen.com on at least one point, then you are guilty of wrong accusations on all points. Agreed? It seems to me that this whole issue is because Joel Osteen isn’t preaching the way you think he should. If you were a believer in Jesus Christ, I might give your arguments some credence. But since you aren’t, give me one good reason why I should even consider what you have to say? I’m as much against the megachurch money whiners as you are. They disgrace and discredit my Lord. If Joel Osteen is truly transgressing, then God will deal with it. But there is also a Scripture that says we are to honor those who preach the word, and those who are in authority over us. (1 Peter 2?17). I wouldn’t want to be in the place of dishonoring one of God’s anointed. Joel Osteen might be making some mistakes. But who doesn’t? We aren’t perfect. Only Jesus was/is perfect. Therefore, God uses imperfect people to do His work here. And He works in each life, as we allow Him, to make us more and more like Christ. But none of us will reach that point here on this earth. The perfection comes only in heaven.

14. First off I would like to point out that Joel (blogger) is not a Christian, nor does he claim to be.

    The points he raises, as well as his questions, are aimed more at Osteen’s particular ministry, his approach to it, and whether or not it is Biblical.

    Joel Osteen can be a sinner, and no doubt is, without risking any type of damnation or divine retribution. But as a pastor, or shepherd, of a congregation of substantial size, he has a responsibility to preach the Bible as it is written and not how he interprets it at this point in its maturity.

    Saying that what the Bible lays down as laws, can change at different points of maturity is foolish. The law is the law. It has no value or potency if we allow it to be bent all the time.

    So let’s review:
    1.Don’t change, subtract, or modify the Scripture (Joel Osteen does on a regular basis as a part of his brand of teaching).
    2.The ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. Even your repentance, bensie, would be meaningless if not for him (even if it was heartfelt, etc) You just can’t be forgiven if he didn’t die on the cross.
    So you can’t be saved without Christ.
    3. The Bible says that if you lead even one of the body of Christ astray that you risk damnation. I’d say Joel Osteen has about 2 million to account for.

15. Joel Osteen is a FINE man of GOD. If u all have queries or comments u should pursue it in a rational manner. Do not deliberately insult a man of GOD. Do not judge, for u won’t want anyone to judge u.What GOD bless no man curse!

16. “We” all have queries and comments, and are pursuing them in a very rational manner. You’ll notice we have laid a solid groundwork for our criticisms by focusing on what Osteen has said himself, on what the Bible says, and how the two match or fail to match.

    Profits and finances are not necessarily signs of God’s blessing. There is a verse somewhere that says something about rich men having a difficult time finding their way to heaven….

17. Joel, in reading the nine verses you listed, I don’t see how you can say it clearly states that only Christians go to Heaven. Where does it explicitly say that? It’s what you are interpreting. To me, it means that only those who accept Christ in their lives will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I can say that you are intrepreting the Bible verses incorrectly and thus you are a false prophet.

    Speaking of false prophets, I personally don’t see Joel Osteen as one. To me, a false prophet is someone like Benny Hinn who claims to cure cancer, AIDS, and other diseases. Or, BET Pastor Kerney Thomas who I watched the other night and thought it was a comedy sketch or something, I couldn’t believe the guy. (if you haven’t seen him type in kerney thomas on youtube) If you send him money, he will send you a blood of Jesus prayer cloth to fix all of your problems. Another false prophet to me would be David Koresh who claimed to be Jesus. These are people that I think of when the Bible mentions false prophets. Joel is telling people to join their local church and put God first in their lives. There’s nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

    The point I want to make is that you have no right to judge Joel Osteen. No man or woman has any right to judge any other man or woman’s faith for that matter. The problem with today’s society is that people always want to judge others without looking at themselves. When you get to the gates of Heaven, God isn’t going to ask you to list all the reasons why Joel Osteen shouldn’t get in, he’s going to know what you did in YOUR life. If you don’t agree with what megachurch televangelist Joel Osteen.com says then ignore his sermons and tv programs and continue attending your own Church or begin your own Ministry. All the time you spend breaking Joel Osteen down could be geared toward something more positive. Joel, you seemed to be a very educated person who has a keen interest in the Bible so maybe you could pursue that futher in some way.

    Let people make their own decisions about whether they accept Joel Osteen’s word or not. Some will see it your way and some won’t, there’s nothing wrong with either choice.

18. My Father does not want your money! He wants your love. Either give that or stay in hell!

    As far as money goes in relation to giving in the name of my Father or me, we demand that the dollar amount be accounted for for the entire flock to see, before the church doors are open if you want your offerings to start accounting for something!

    And that the money collected be used for the poor and hungry, as well as the sick. We don’t have a giving problem in our churches, what we have is a sharing problem ~ why do you think I threw the money changers out to start with?

    Making money off of my Fathers words, are you that lost? You money collectors have forgotten who you serve and who the money given in the name of God should be shared with, and that a true man of God would be served last!

    I dare you to debate that with me ~ especially in the after life! Now come together and come clean, or shut your mouth and especially your devil worshipping money hiding churches.

    Do you really think my Father or myself is impressed by the churches you build to us, or the love you show to each other? The only thing we see is our love split into a million different religions, for a million different reasons & money made off of it is by far the worst!

19. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES!

20. Ummm…. Anthony…. A person who accepts Christ into their hearts is by definition a Christian….

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