SUPER FUNNY UPDATE ON JOEL OSTEEN: Check out Joel Osteen’s super scammy books he sells on Amazon (24!!!) including his self help BS book
and his hilarious book on “Wise Choices”. If only he’d follow his own advice!
LOL! For all you Joel Osteen fanboys – remember he just cynically feeds on you to make money so he can live his fancy lifestyle. He couldn’t care less about you in reality.
Popular televangelist preacher Joel Osteen has been named the “Most Influential Christian in America” in 2006 by the Church Report, was one of
Barbara Walters, “10 Most Fascinating People of 2006 and operates an extraordinarily profitable religious scam operation that probably will one day end in scandal.
So who is this guy who has appeared on 60 Minutes, Larry King Live and has his own television shows?
Who is this guy who thinks he can share the mighty name of Joel?
Joel Osteen has not yet had major sex scandals, drug scandals or molestation scandals like the other megachurch pastors: Pat Robertson, Al Sharpton, Ted Haggard, Paul Barnes, D.E. (Earl) Paulk, Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Bakker, William Dodd and too many others to possibly mention here. What Joel Osteen DOESN’T do is the real question.
In his sermons, Joel Osteen does not talk about God. Joel Osteen instead talks about almost everything except God. He has a television ministry, a massive church, $43 million a year in tithes and another $36 million a year in mailed in donations, but he won’t talk about God. He, like Pastor Kevin Gerald, talks about more pleasant topics, such as donating money to him and positive thinking. He has written two books, the second of which sold 3 million copies, but his books don’t really talk about God either. It’s just his bland and boring advice on how to live a happy life that has been thought of by other people first, “Think positively about yourself” and other such drivel.
What does Joel Osteen say when people ask him about why he does not discuss God or Jesus Christ or sin or what you need to do to go to Heaven? “That’s not my gift.” What are you doing being a freaking megachurch pastor then, bonehead?!
If you are going to try to operate a religious scam, at least make it religious! I actually think that Joel Osteen operating a secular “Christian” church is more of a scandal than Ted Haggard and his transsexual prostitutes and meth! (Though not nearly as funny of a scandal).
Joel Osteen didn’t even found his megachurch; instead the business was handed down to him by his father. When Joel Osteen became the head pastor of his church, he had only preached ONE sermon in his entire life- and that was the week before. Joel Osteen does not have any training in the Bible (seminary, degrees, etc.), which is probably why he doesn’t want to talk about it much.
My loyal readers have pointed out to me many times that the ridiculous actions of leaders in religion do not invalidate their beliefs. They are absolutely correct on this. However, there has never been anything that VALIDATES their beliefs either. The Flying Spaghetti Monster has the same amount of evidence on his side as most other gods. Here is another question I put to you: Please find me a single megachurch pastor who is NOT a scam-running, meth-eating, prostitute-abusing criminal. Anyone?
Update March 3, 2008 on JOEL OSTEEN:
Many people have been discussing Joel Osteen in the comments and making statements about his beliefs, behavior and preaching methods that show a distinct lack of understanding of his profit driven motives. Below I have added a video of Joel Osteen on Larry King Live where he dances around the core question of the Christian faith: What does it take to get to heaven? Joel Osteen hems and haws and won’t even say that people of different religions won’t make it to heaven.
The partial transcript for Joel Osteen’s interview with Larry King is below. I have basically pulled out the most pertinent excerpts to the point I have tried to make on televangelist Joel Osteen.
Televangelist Joel Osteen Discusses Christianity with Larry King
First is Larry King’s impressive introduction of Joel Osteen:
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Joel Osteen, evangelism’s hottest rising star, pastor for the biggest congregation in the United States… Pastor Joel Osteen is here for the hour…. Joel Osteen is the author of the number one “New York Times” best-seller, “Your Best Life Now.” There you see its cover. “Seven Steps to Living at Your Full Potential.” There is now a compendium been published called “Your Best Life Now Journal,” a guide to reaching that full potential. Joel Osteen is pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. His father before him. He has been called the smiling preacher.
Larry King knows Joel Osteen Ministries is huge and tries to play nice with him throughout the interview.
KING: Why are you a preacher?
JOEL OSTEEN: You know, I never was for 17 years. I worked with my dad there at the church. He tried to get me to minister. I didn’t have it in me. I worked behind the scenes. I loved doing production and things. But when my father died, I just knew — I don’t know how to explain it, it sounds kind of odd, but I just knew down to here I was supposed to step up to the plate and pastor the church. And it was odd because I had never preached before. But I just knew I was supposed to do it.
Hmmm… either God gave him the “calling” or he was scared of losing his father’s multi-million dollar preaching business.
KING: But don’t you think if people don’t believe as you believe, they’re somehow condemned?
JOEL OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I’m for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it’s not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that’s God’s for you. You can live a good life no matter what’s happened to you. And so I don’t know. I know there is condemnation but I don’t feel that’s my place.
Joel Osteen comes right out and says that he will refuse to condemn sinners. He is too afraid, it’s not his place, he just wants to spew bland niceties… hmmm.
LARRY KING: Where were you ordained? OSTEEN: I was ordained from the church there, Lakewood, under my dad’s ministry.
LARRY KING: So you didn’t go to seminary?
JOEL OSTEEN: No, sir, I didn’t.
LARRY KING: They can just make you a minister?
JOEL OSTEEN: You can, you can.
Wow. Joel Osteen never even attended Bible school or classes for future preachers. No wonder he is so clueless about Biblical theology.
LARRY KING: Is it hard to lead a Christian life?
JOEL OSTEEN: I don’t think it’s that hard. To me it’s fun. We have joy and happiness. Our family — I don’t feel like that at all. I’m not trying to follow a set of rules and stuff. I’m just living my life.
LARRY KING: But you have rules, don’t you?
JOEL OSTEEN: We do have rules. But the main rule to me is to honor God with your life. To life a life of integrity. Not be selfish. You know, help others. But that’s really the essence of the Christian faith.
Of course its not hard for Joel Osteen to lead a Christian life. BECAUSE HE’S NOT!!!
LARRY KING: What if you’re Jewish or Muslim, you don’t accept Christ at all?
JOEL OSTEEN: You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know …
LARRY KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They’re wrong, aren’t they?
JOEL OSTEEN: Well, I don’t know if I believe they’re wrong. I believe here’s what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person’s heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don’t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don’t know. I’ve seen their sincerity. So I don’t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
The last exchange between Larry King and Joel Osteen hits the nail on the head of everything that is wrong with the Joel Osteen Ministry. All it is is fluff. He can’t even defend the single core belief of Christianity- that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is a requirement to gain access to Heaven.
Below is more Joel Osteen preaching videos. Joel Osteen preaches on cheesy, transparent topics that have nothing to do with the Bible. He twists scripture around to serve his own purposes of mass produced drivel. My question to Joel Osteen is where in the Bible does it say Christians have a “right to total victory” over physical pain, financial problems and other issues? Did he completely miss the book of Job or the trials and tribulations that the early Christians had to suffer under the Romans? I don’t think that Joel Osteen has ever even read the Bible.
DO NOT LET JOEL OSTEEN CONTINUE TO GET AWAY WITH HIS BIBLE-CONTRADICTING, POLITICALLY CORRECT AND PROFIT SEEKING DRIVEL! JOEL OSTEEN’S SCANDAL IS OUTRAGEOUS!
Jesus once went into a temple and threw out currency traders and salespeople…. WHO WILL THROW THE SCANDAL CREATING JOEL OSTEEN OUT OF GOD’S ASTRODOME TEMPLE?
Further discussion: Joel Osteen megachurch building – Joel Osteen paid the city of Houston $90,000,000 to remodel the former home of NBA team Houston Rockets and an additional $14,000,000 to lease the building for 30 years. Preacher Joel Osteen’s megachurch does not even own the building! Pastor Joel Osteen doesn’t care though- he’ll be dead by then and this church is all about him. The most interesting thing about the new church is that there is not a SINGLE cross in the whole building! Want to know why? Joel Osteen says that he wants to remove all “stumbling blocks” from the way of people coming to his church and being comfortable. Since when has Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross been a STUMBLING BLOCK for faith?! The scandal here is that the Joel Osteen is doing and saying blasphemous things… and no one is calling him out on it. The pastor of the largest church in America won’t even follow the basic tenets of Christianity!
Visit the Prayer Helpers site here to buy prayers for sale.
Joel Osteen is unable to even keep his own family under control. Pastor Joel Olsteen’s wife, Victoria Osteen, has been fined $3,000 and is being sued for assaulting a flight attendant on her first-class trip to the playground of the rich and famous Vail, Colorado.
Bible Verses that Condemn Megachurch Pastor Joel Osteen
I have had quite a few people post in the comments asking what does it really matter what Joel Osteen believes if he’s helping people? If Joel Osteen teaches nice things, isn’t it okay for him to be a Christian pastor? I understand that my opinions of right and wrong should not sway you, but I ask you to consider what the Bible says on the matter. First, let’s take the Bible verses that are the standard definition of who is a Christian:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (NIV)
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 (NIV)
For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23 (NIV)
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of Godnot by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)
To summarize, the only way to be saved and go to heaven is by the grace of Jesus and by faith in God. These are the basic verses that every Christian who has accepted Christ knows. Now for the verses that clearly state that only Christians who believe the above will go to Heaven:
-John 3:3: no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.
-John 3:15: everyone who believes in him [Jesus] may have eternal life.
-John 3:18: whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son.
-John 14:6: Jesus answered: No one comes to the Father except through me
-Acts 3:23: And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. (ASV)
-Acts 4:12: Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved
-Romans 10:9: Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
-Hebrews 9:28: he [Christ] will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him
-1 John 5:12: he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
The nine quoted verses above clearly state that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, if Joel Osteen truly believed and was a pastor of a Bible-based church, would he preach a false message of hope to people? Joel Osteen is essentially subverting the word of God, which motivated me to write this post. I am not sure why Joel would do this, but my postulation (as above) is that he is doing it for financial gain. Joel Osteens father was a pastor and he has been a pastor for a long time now and he should know better than most people the MOST basic tenets of Christianity. Ignorance is an excuse for new Christians (as long as they work at it), but not for a shepherd of the flock.
Do you know what the Bible says about false teachers like Joel Osteen?
-2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
-Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.
-Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
-2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
-2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
-Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
-Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.
The Bible is very, very harsh in its condemnation of people who change, twist or leave out parts of its doctrine. False leaders (Joel Osteen), to me, are more disgusting than someone who is a hypocrite (Ted Haggard).
For more information on mega church pastor Joel Osteen you can search Google with the terms joelosteen.com or joel osteen.com to find the man’s website. You could also use terms such as Joel Osteen Website or Joel Osteen Lakewood Church for other sorts of information on him.
Why do I care what Joel Osteen does or doesnt do in his church, especially seeing that I am not religious? People who are cheats, fakes, and phonies really bother me. I have written quite a few other posts on various community leaders who lead people astray for their own personal gain. My tax dollars go to support Joel Osteen (every church in America is exempt from taxes, but Joel Osteen is making millions tax-free teaching his Prosperity Message when he is basically just another self-help guru). I also am very wary of megachurch pastors (I used to attend one and have seen many on television)- they often seem to be some of the craziest people (Jim Jones-Want some Kool Aid?)
While I certainly do agree with you about Joel Osteen, I do not necessarily agree that it applies to all pastors of mega churches. Research Dr. Johnny Hunt, Pastor of First Baptist Church Woodstock, GA and current President of the Southern Baptist convention. I believe that you will find that he meets all of your criteria.
As a Christian man, I am Enraged by your article!
Joel talks about God all the time in his sermons! Also, he gives everyone a chance at the end of every televised Sermon to give their life to Jesus Christ!
As far as his book goes, “Your Best Life Now”; DID YOU EVEN BOTHER TO READ IT?? It was not boring or drivel. In fact many people including me, thought it to be Very Insightful! I feel that it really impacted me and my wife in a positive way.
As for Credentials, Joel may or may not have gone to Seminary school. As far as I can see, he is teaching biblical principles. I read the Bible and so far I have not found problems with his sermons.
Also, Jesus never went to Seminary school or Jewish temples, ect.. to learn what he needed to teach people.
From what I can see, he does not want to be Judgmental of others, for it says that GOD is the judge of man, not man! Mathew 7:1-2, “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.”
3 John 1:2 “Beloved, I pray that in all things thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.”
In this verse, it talks about Christians prospering in all things, and all areas of life. That is one of Joel’s topics he refers to most.
So what is the problem, that he wants people to know that God wants his people to do well in every area of their lives!
He admits that he and his wife are not perfect, just like you and me.
None of us are perfect. The only one who was, was Jesus Christ.
You may not believe that Jesus Christ came to earth to relate to us as a man, and help us with our relationship with God; That he died on the Cross and took all of our Sins to himself; then overcome death on the third day and rose again. With our relationship with Jesus Christ, we have a relationship with our father God thru him.
Again, at the end of each telecast, he gives people the chance to commit their lives to Christ.
Tim Little
MATTHEW 7:1-6 READ IT AND CONTEMPLATE IT. ALL I SEE IS FRUIT FROM THIS SERVANT. I DONT ATTEND TO THIS CHURCH BUT I DO KNOW HE LOVES GOD!
Every preacher doesn’t have to preach the same way. He’s just saying that it’s not his job to condemn, it’s God. God knows what’s in the persons heart, not us. It’s not that he’s too afraid.
I personally like his preachings & I haven’t heard him say anything that’s contrary to God’s word. Maybe the reason why God called Him to preach the way He does is because there are already many preachers who preach the same way. He said that God has given him a message to preach. And it may not be a message of “This certain individual won’t go to Heaven because he or she is Muslim or Jewish.” but it is a message by God, nonetheless. And by the way, at the end of every sermon, he always gives people the chance to accept Jesus into their hearts. So in no way is he saying that you don’t have to accept Jesus as your personal savior. Every time I watch his program on television, it always touches my heart. It gives me hope. So what’s wrong with preaching about positive thinking, because that’s what people like me who suffers from insecurities need to hear. There is nothing in the scripture that says that it is wrong to preach about that.
And also what makes you think that you have to go to seminar school to preach the word of God. In early times, they didn’t even have seminars. Do you think Paul went to seminar school. No…But God lead him through His spirit to write part of the New Testament. That’s because God moves through our spirit. It is God telling him what to say when he preaches. And I’m pretty sure he spends a lot of time studying God’s word, & trusting in God to give Him a clear understanding of it. I’m sorry to say, but you are being quite judgmental yourself to a man who has lead thousands to Christ. And to a man who has saved thousands of souls from an eternity in Hell.
All these televangelist live in big fine homes and drive big fine cars . George Muller was an evangelist and philanthropist in the 1800’s. He never once asked anyone for money to do God’s work and God gave him $7,500,000.00 and he built 5 orphanages in Bristol England, traveled 200,000 miles in 17 years, preached in 42 countries to 3 million people, had an average salery of $12,000.00 and gave it all away ecxept for keeping $1,800.00 a year to live and travel on. He died at the age of 89 in his room in orphan house No. 3 in Bristol Egland, leaving in his will 160 british Lbs. A far cry from John Hagee’s 7,969 acre ranch with five lodges, a manager’s house, a smokehouse, a skeet range, and three barns and his $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits of which he (John Hagee) says “I deserve every dime I’m getting” or Creflo Dollars lifestyle which he says “just because its excessive dosen’t mean it’s wrong”, OR ALL THE RICHES THE OTHERS HAVE ACCUMULATED. GEORGE MULLER SAID THIS: A SERVANT OF GOD HAS BUT ONE MASTER. IT ILL BECOMES THE SERVANT TO SEEK TO BECOME RICH, AND GREAT, AND HONOURED IN THAT WORLD WHERE HIS LORD WAS POOR, AND MEAN(HUMBLE), AND DESPISED. ENOUGH SAID
the person who write this,is wrong,i am christian for 30 yrs,and i know the scriptures,they said about lots of promesses,if you belive,never,nobody,speak of this blessing,others always condemned people,its ok to preach about it,,,,but,for many christians,as for me,in need to hear words of faith and hope,is very important,Pastor Joel is only a man,he is not perfect,but I Know,he loves God,and he don’t need to go seminary,the bible is very clear,and easy to understand…until today,he is a man of God! and may God bless and prosper his ministery!
How does bashing Joel Osteen help anyone???? A lot of time was spent putting this whole site together and for what? What good does it do??? At least Joel’s helping people and not wasting time putting websites together bashing other people….
You’re just jealous.
Team Osteen!
God Bless!
I used to watch Joel Osteen and it made me feel happy. Good about myself. I bought one of his books…read 10 pages…and thought..this book sucks. He says the same crap over and over again in different ways. That book should only have been 3 pages. Now.. as a discerning Christian….something is not quite right with this guy. The more I watch and listen to him the more I realize he seems quite shallow. Now my cousin has been to his church and loves him. Why? I ask. So he sticks up a few Bible verses. He isn’t a pastor. He is a motivational speaker or something. He can’t be a pastor. He doesn’t really preach. he just keeps talking about finding favor with God. I’m happy..God gives me everything I want. Money…big churches blah blah blah. Let’s take a moment and think about this. There are Christians in China and Africa who are killed for being Christians. They are risking their lives to own a Bible for goodness sake. Why are they not getting this “Favor” Joel Osteen talks about? Why are they still in these countries in danger? Why don’t the suddenly get money so they can flee? Why don’t they have food and nice houses? Why are they meeting in secret and not in a big church? They don’t have the favor of God? Give me a break. Just because you are a Christian does not entitle you to great finances and perfect lives. Why is this being taught all over the place? It’s sick. Ever hear of Job? What about John the Baptist….who got his head cut off for preaching about Jesus? GO ahead…watch Joel…be shallow…I did it myself for a year or so. If you don’t believe in Jesus Christ…then you will not go to heaven. Big churches…fancy houses….happy all day long…these things do not matter. I was completely taken aback when I saw him on Larry King…he could not answer a simple question…a question regarding the truth. How can he call himself a pastor and claim to be leading people to Christ when he gave the answer that he gave. I won’t watch him now. I agree in postive thinking…however he is way to shallow for me. Spiritually….his talk does nothing for me. God will take care of me…but that doesn’t mean everything will be easy and perfect and happy and rosy and peachy. I suspect as a Christian…life in a ungodly world will be difficult and painful. I know where my reward is…not here..in heaven. Pray for Joel Osteen..he makes a lot of money making people “feel” good. That’s not what it’s all about. You want happiness and fullfillment…then you need to listen to what God says…not Joel Osteen or any other man. They can’t save you.
I don’t know if you will post this, but who are we to judge; Let God be the judge of Joel, as long as he’s showing God’s love to others, i see him helping to spread God’s message, One of the Greatest commandments is to Love thy neighbor, When you live a life with christ you will be blessed and if Joel is blessed with money it’s all the gifts of the Lord!
Joel won’t burn in hell. He’s a saved individual because he preaches good news and hope in Jesus’ name. There is nothing wrong with hope; for some it’s all they have.
Of course, I don’t think this question will ever be resolved. It runs as far back as to whether the Protestants are more correct or the Catholics. Well, why are there so many churches in the world? Which one of them is correct? Which one is better than the other? WHO CARES!!!!!
The only thing that does matter, and should be the only concern of those here, is that Jesus loves you more than anything in the universe. And though he’ll love you forever, even if you do go to hell, He also does want you to love Him.
Honestly, I think Joel Osteen is a saved man, as well as he appears to an all-around good man. But really, nobody knows everything, so it is impossible to say whether or not he is credible. Only God knows. I like him, however I like other pastors as well, for they tend to fill in the gaps that Joel leaves behind.
The point? Please don’t look to Joel Osteen as a panacea. Nor look to 100 pastors or even 1000 pastors in search of “more of the truth”. Look to Jesus in the Bible. Because if it weren’t for Him, none of these pastors would have existed in the first place.
Greetings in JESUS’S name.I don’t have all the facts about Joel Osteen Ministries,but i will say this.GOD is real and there is no other god that is.GOD is very clear in his word about the way we should live to please him.Anybody who doesn’t fall in line and i mean anyone,at the end of this present life GOD will judge that person according to his word.I have had enough of all the religious scandals that goes on in this world.Some are true and some are not.Let us always keep in mind that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost and GOD is going to hold everyone of us responsible for how we maintain the body.GOD will judge preachers and pastors and also every human being that passes through this earth.As for me and my house we wil serve the LORD with our whole heart,whether other folks choose to believe the bible or not.Something is terribly wrong with this world and GOD is coming soon.
I have witnessed a Joel Osteen message and have read the negative comments/biblical attacks on them. What a typical reaction to the GOOD NEWS of Jesus Christ. Prov4 is all about wisdom. There has not been any type of credible scandal because evil pursues sinners, oh yes that is also in the bible Prov13:21.
Maybe if the critics could read Prov2:10 the attack of the GOOD NEWS of Jesus could stop. What a wonderful dream that would be, a world with postive, nonjudgemental people. There is only one judge, remember John 8:7. Helping people feel good about God’s message and about themselves- what a concept- God Bless you Joel!
FYI Pastor Joel does not take a salary from Lakewood Church. His books and cd’s paid for his salary. Lakewood members tithes and offering goes to the mission fields around the world,(for example Africa, India, Haiti,Honduras,Jamica,Peru and Mexico to name a few) television programs worldwide and the building’s bills. Oh by the way Father Abram was one of the riches man in the world. I wonder if he made it to Heaven. May God’s peace be with you.
I have struggled with the idea of many of these tv evangelists requesting money even when it is tough for us & we don’t know where our next meal is coming from while they leave their preaching place & drive home to their 3 million, 7 million, & 20 & 30 million dollar estates. I simply think to myself when & where is a pastor/minister/priest obligated to draw the line on their earnings & gifts. I am not suggesting that anyone live in the slums or trailer parks of America, but I know one thning for certain, I would never be able to ask somone for money who is earning $50k or less a year for their money & have the audacity to be living in an estate worth millions. Mind you the estate value does not include the hired hands/”help” to run it, the cars, the wardrobes, & all the other amenities. I don’t know how they are not struck down. Igt is bewildering to me. I listen to them. I love the Word. I love God. These people do have value. I can’t just cancel them out & say they are 100% evil or bad or that they have spoken 100% falsehoods. I know of know minister/priest/preacher who is anything more than human & therefore I know of no minister/pastor/priest who is not wrought with sin just as the rest of us are. So I cut them a break, but I don’t send money. I don’t buy that the pastors & such who are preaching on a more local level would be much different the day someone walks in with the deal of a “lifetime” to broadcast on radio or tv & grow your flock by another 2000, 5000, 20,000, 250,000 & 1 million… Which one of us would say no to such a deal while we are in the midst of preaching HIS WORD. Wouldn’t any one of us assume that it must be God blessing us. To turn it down would mean limiting how many people you can reach & if you are 1 of those vibrant TD Jakes/Billy Graham speakers with the ultimate gift for gab, is not your duty to spread whatever it is you have to say. As far Joel is concerned, if he gives people hope who are two seconds away from jumping off the nearest bridge or just giving up on life, then fine. Of course Joel is not the sole source for your Christian faith nor should any man/woman be that source for you. They should be one of many sources. You must always go back to the bible & read, contemplate, ask, study & be confused at times. It is healthy. I listen to Joel & I think ok that is 1 part of many other different parts. I can be too negative. We all can. We can all have this doom & gloom about us. If Joel is able to attract souls that would not never walk through the doors of the church & START (EMPHASIS ON START ONLY) them on a path to picking up the bible for the 1st time in their lives or revisiting it since their childhood, then that is worth it to me. We are all misguided & we all misinterpret because it is complicated & situational & so on. In order to be able to handle all preachers/priests’ inconsistencies & not use it as an excuse to steer clear of religion, I deduced the following:
Yes it is wrong & one is toying with evil when as a “Man/Woman of God or The Cloth, you flourish in material riches but yet ask those with 1/1000th of what you have to keep feeding you, I mean the “church”. I don’t care if the mansion or estate was a “gift” or if it came from your ridiculous “salary” & creative thinking of your accountants & attorneys to dish out more titles to you within your own organization.
One can rationalize anything especially when enough people are whispering in your ear about how it is your right & its a gift from God (only because they too will benefit-if you dig in the pot then they get to dig in the pot with a clear conscience)
The trade off for all this is that God can use any one of us to spread HIS WORD. HE can & has even used evil to do this. The Word continues to be spread even by wrong-doers so therefore I listen. I listen, I learn. I don’t listen blindly, so I don’t send money. I am challenged by them to have to contemplate all of these things & I appreciate all of them for this. Otherwise I would not have to consider the sense or logic in any of this.
Finally their actions (tv evangelists & more) have forced me to plan for the blessings of earthly wealth in healthy manner. I have had discussions with GOD along these lines of earthly wealth & have had to ground myself so that I will not end up with their kind of image. No one can escape criticism, but one thing they would never be able to say about me is that I am requesting donations for a cause while living in a 10 million dollar mansion. My spouse & I have agreed that our lifestyle would change minimally. We would keep the same home unless security became an issue & even then we would simply move to a more reasonable gated community if need be.The point of having wealth for us is that we would be debt free. It does not mean we would own a Rolls Royce & so on. Upgrades for us would involve going from a Nissan to an Acura or the Ford Escape to the Ford Explorer. I am not purporting that it would be easy & that we would not have to constantly keep one another “in check” BECAUSE WE WOULD. What I am saying is we would be AWARE & we would CARE as we do now & that is the difference. I would not spend time trying to see if I could out-wit someone who is going to oppose my lifestyle. I would simply steer clear of the lavish lifestyle & upgrade quietly on a few things. Enjoy HIS blessings but don’t go crazy. I would think that becoming debt free for most of these people (given their stories from their earlier days) would be the gift of all gifts. Afterall for the way we Americans live, some in other countries & even here inthe Appalachian mountain sides would argue that we are far above the means we should be at because everything is so relative. Our 150k home would be a mansion to someone with no home or a shack.
I thank the tv evangelists for forcing me (who is not a preacher/minister) to consider what I would do & how I would conduct myself if we were ever blessed with an abundance of material wealth.
I thank them for their messages too which serve as an inspiration. It is up to me not to be full of a mushy brain that can not correct certain messages as needed in accordance with the bible.
I have do this all day anyway when dealing with people, tv, radio & more.
I also thank them for letting me see their degree of absurdity in viewing their estates on the internet, because without it we may not have curbed our appetites. We would have given but certainly not as much. Now we know that if we are blessed more than we are now, the purpose will be to share it with those in need & not to upgrade our jewelry, home, cars, wardrobe to the extent that a we owuld now not be caught dead in a $200.00 outfit versus one that is worth thousands.
I do want to point out that I understand image becomes an issue for all of these people too, so they now have to be in a suit that translates well ont he screen since we live in such a highly visual society that is fashion aware & so much more. It still does not excuse spending $10k on a suit. You can get a suit that is $2k that will translate well on screen. You can also turn down “gifts”. Don;’t say “oh well one of our parishoners gives me a new BMW every year-whatever can I do? You can choose to not accept it (like what our parents taught us to do when we were little) or you can accept it & give it to someone who is without a car or buy 2 or three cars with it & give it to those in need.
I do grow weary of the “victim” image that is projected in all of them accepting, accpeting, accepting the gifts, the salaries, & so on & just putting off on their experts having advised them to do it. Thats like saying the devil made me do it. No kidding-now undo it for once in Jesus’ name.
TORN BUT STABLE,
Ormond
In my eyes I see no wrong with this man, but i am noone to judge him only God can judge. It’s so funny how people are so quick to judge if you dont like what this man speaks about turn off the tv, dont watch him let him speak the word of God to those who will listen because just like jesus was persecuted for his teachings, christians in this time will also be frowned upon if this man is wrong in anything he says God wil deal with him it’s not up to the whole world to build a million websites dedicated to frowning upon Joel Osteen. If he was teaching wrong God would not have blessed him with such a large and powerful ministry. Galatians 1:11 ” I want you to know, brothers that the gospel i preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was i taughtit, rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ”.
ORMOND, to read your post is exhousting! You tell us (in short) Joel is okay on the other hand he isn’t. People like you should forget all this money things. They need it to broadcast on TV, to keep their church building in shape, to pay the pastors and some other staff members. With all this millions of church goers it’s obviously that the Osteens earn a hugh amount, even one person isn’t giving much.Forget the poor people in the world who can give a lot of money. Joel never ask for a certain amount, you give or do not give. It’s up to you. So let’s discuss his positive bible based message. Joel nor voctoria tell us that they are better than we are. His family isn’t more perfect than everyone else. Are they claming to be somebody better. No! In this Spirit. – Blessings, Rose
You are right on with this one. He just wants to say what people WANT to hear, not what we as Christians NEED to hear.
He is, as you say, giving the “prosperity gospel”, and is making a good living, from simply exploiting the word and hope of God. I would certainly describe this type of work as false prophecy.
Well, what can i say…. Jesus Christ himself said “DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves Mat 7:1. Where do human beings really get off trying to decide who is christian, and who is not? It is really not our place. And then, the bible also said “For the Lord sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.I Sam. 16:7.” ”
Leave it to God to decide who is for Him, and who is not (II Tim. 2:19)…afterall, it is the church of God, no matter what the name it is called by.
I honestly don’t understand what was negative about what Joel said. I am a christian, I know who Joel is, but have never watched him on t.v. or have had any other type of interest in him particularly, but I do know that from what I saw, I agree. Only God can judge someone. There is not a formula that opens the doors of heaven, and a formula that closes them. Each individual that chooses to believe in Christ has their own life which includes their own set of circumstances and struggles. I know I am a sinner, who am I to judge another person? I haven’t walked in everyones shoes. I learned a while ago that you walk through the fire you judge, and boy, I am done judging fires. I am tired of walking through them. I learn each time I encounter this scenario, how much I don’t know.